Intersystem bonding terminal's.

  • 18 Aug 2011 12:04 PM
    Message # 679188

    When converting overhead to underground service on a single family residence,would it be required by MRC to install a bonding terminal for catv,phone etc.????????In most case's on an existing residence,these are usaully bonded somewhere already.New constuction would be different.

    Also, would it be required to install a new grounding electrode to the water meter,when the existing panel is not being touched during this type of installation?Thank's

  • 20 Aug 2011 3:51 PM
    Reply # 680986 on 679188
    Larry Proghovnick wrote:

    When converting overhead to underground service on a single family residence,would it be required by MRC to install a bonding terminal for catv,phone etc.????????In most case's on an existing residence,these are usaully bonded somewhere already.New constuction would be different.

    Also, would it be required to install a new grounding electrode to the water meter,when the existing panel is not being touched during this type of installation?Thank's

    Larry, I feel that the Service must be safe when the inspector puts his approval sticker on it. If I were to make an inspection as a condition of having the utility company change the overhead supply to an underground supply I would look at the grounding for that Service. If the grounding needed to be upgraded I would indicate that on my inspection slip. This could very well include the intersystem grounding. In the past the phone company installed their own grounding electrode separate from the electric utility and this has always been a 4 foot ground rod at the demarcation point. That no longer is acceptable. The code is always changing and as inspectors we need to inspect to the current code and that's what the homeowners expect, as do the contractors. If we inspect an installation and we see something that is dangerous and even tho we are not there to inspect that item we are obligated to make someone aware of it because if we don't we could be held responsible for ignoring it. I've had it happen to me. The "Why didn't you tell me there was a problem" kicks in and the inspector becomes the bad guy.
  • 20 Aug 2011 4:41 PM
    Reply # 681001 on 680986
    George Little wrote:
    Larry Proghovnick wrote:

    When converting overhead to underground service on a single family residence,would it be required by MRC to install a bonding terminal for catv,phone etc.????????In most case's on an existing residence,these are usaully bonded somewhere already.New constuction would be different.

    Also, would it be required to install a new grounding electrode to the water meter,when the existing panel is not being touched during this type of installation?Thank's

    Larry, I feel that the Service must be safe when the inspector puts his approval sticker on it. If I were to make an inspection as a condition of having the utility company change the overhead supply to an underground supply I would look at the grounding for that Service. If the grounding needed to be upgraded I would indicate that on my inspection slip. This could very well include the intersystem grounding. In the past the phone company installed their own grounding electrode separate from the electric utility and this has always been a 4 foot ground rod at the demarcation point. That no longer is acceptable. The code is always changing and as inspectors we need to inspect to the current code and that's what the homeowners expect, as do the contractors. If we inspect an installation and we see something that is dangerous and even tho we are not there to inspect that item we are obligated to make someone aware of it because if we don't we could be held responsible for ignoring it. I've had it happen to me. The "Why didn't you tell me there was a problem" kicks in and the inspector becomes the bad guy.

    Hi George.I appreciate your comment's.In this case the existing service is properly and safely grounded to the copper pipe water system.Bonded at the water meter.All which was allowed when the service was installed.The panel was never touched,the S.E. cable was not replaced.In my year's as a contractor and working electrician,I would know if there was an unsafe condition.And I would have addressed it.Also I'm still not clear as to who or whom will connect to this intersystem bonding terminal.Thank's for any thought's.Larry
  • 20 Aug 2011 8:17 PM
    Reply # 681086 on 679188
    Larry Proghovnick wrote:

    When converting overhead to underground service on a single family residence,would it be required by MRC to install a bonding terminal for catv,phone etc.????????In most case's on an existing residence,these are usaully bonded somewhere already.New constuction would be different.

    Also, would it be required to install a new grounding electrode to the water meter,when the existing panel is not being touched during this type of installation?Thank's

    Well Larry, I don't know if you are inspecting this job, installing it or if this is a hypothetical situation. In any case if it's properly grounded and it's not being worked on then I guess I'm happy :) If it's not being worked on and you or I see a problem then you and I are not happy :(
  • 21 Aug 2011 11:34 AM
    Reply # 681378 on 679188
    Thank's George for your input.I am hoping for some other replie's about this subject.I think it's very interesting.
  • 21 Aug 2011 12:37 PM
    Reply # 681422 on 681378
    Larry Proghovnick wrote:Thank's George for your input.I am hoping for some other replie's about this subject.I think it's very interesting.
    Your entirely welcome, I enjoy commenting on code issues and listening to what others have to say about the code. As an added thought, the issue of the communication systems and grounding is kinda complex at the very least. First the code requires us to install a terminal for the intersystem bonding conductors E3609.3 (MRC) but the wiring and grounding of the communication systems is often done by a non-licensed person without a permit as allowed by Michigan law. So who inspects it? Answer the electrical inspector if he sees it. Who corrects any problems? Anyone the property owner or project director wants to repair it. How does the Inspector get paid to re-inspect it? That becomes an administrative nightmare for the party responsible for code enforcement. I would not approve a job for utility hook up until the communication grounding was correct. I would tell the enforcment agency I did not approve the job and will need a re-inspection.
  • 29 Sep 2011 8:51 AM
    Reply # 711567 on 679188

    I feel that the inter system bonding conection is now part of the code, so when someone does a service upgrade it should be installed. If we as inspectors can all inforce it the same it will make all of our jobs easier. We won't hear well so and so doesn't make me do that.

    As far as the inside part of the service not being touched. I always tell the contractors, I can't make you replace the equipment inside or install new equipment, but it still must be up to code. If that means install a bond screw, ground the water pipe (within 5' of entrance), bond around the water meter, bond the corrugated stainless steel tubing for gas, install a inter system bonding bar, or any other violation inside then it must be done.

    As a contractor it should be part of your job to inspect the service just as I do when bidding the job. If you point things out to the home owner that are not up to the present code it might just help get the job.

    Thats my opinion I would like to hear other opinions.

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